[RCU] RCM appears to be the culprit for non-delivery of some emails to GMail addresses

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

This is my setup:

Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server + RCM
+ QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet

I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web sites
and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from phr AT
philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was not
delivered. I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient today
and what I know so far is:

- If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though the
QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.

- If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr address
to the same person, it is delivered OK.

- If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered OK.

So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since nothing
is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the header lines
of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't make any more
progress trying to work out what the problem is.

I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to fit
that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas? Is it possible that
GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently fail to
deliver them to recipients?

Thanks,

Phil.

[Philip Rhoades]

Reindl,

Post by Philip Rhoades
So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since nothing
is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the header lines
of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't make any more
progress trying to work out what the problem is.

no idea about qmail (who uses such a completly unmaintained peice of
software in 2018) but with postfix it's easy to get a BCC of submited
messages
header_checks = pcre:/etc/postfix/header_checks_smtpd.cf

That does not help - as I said - I HAVE the original sent mail in the
Maildir folder - I don't need a BCC . . you misunderstood and snipped
out the relevant information . .

P.

[Philip Rhoades]

Reindl,

Post by Philip Rhoades

Post by Philip Rhoades
So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since nothing
is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the header lines
of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't make any more
progress trying to work out what the problem is.

no idea about qmail (who uses such a completly unmaintained peice of
software in 2018) but with postfix it's easy to get a BCC of submited
messages
header_checks = pcre:/etc/postfix/header_checks_smtpd.cf

That does not help - as I said - I HAVE the original sent mail in the
Maildir folder - I don't need a BCC . . you misunderstood and snipped
out the relevant information

you said "of course since nothing is ever actually delivered or
bounced,
I can't compare the header lines of the failed emails to the successful
emails"
so when you say you can't compare WHY when you have it?

You are still misunderstanding - the mail has header lines that were
included by RCM and the local server - so that mail, stored in the Sent
folder, can easily be resent manually - which works. The problem is
that because the mails that are sent unsuccessfully by RCM directly, and
appear to reach the GMail server and then disappear - we never see the
header lines that would be added by the GMail server(s) - so we can't
compare them to the mails that are resent manually and successfully.

P.

[Vincent Van Houtte]

Hi,

Something seems off, and I would not suspect RC as the first culprit:
* PEBKAC: if the receiver has set up rules to move certain emails to a
folder that (s)he didn't check
* PEBKAC: if the email is in a junkmail folder that wasn't checked
* Qmail bug? Maybe increase log level?
* Other bug? At my wife's office, we hit an Evolution bug last year that
was known for many years, but apparently nobody cared enough to fix it
until we were hit - the client reported that sending had succeeded, but
exim never actually sent the email...

In general, I don't believe Gmail would reject email and not warn either
the sender or the recipient. Did you try the Gmail support form?
https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2920052?hl=en

If you want, I can give you my gmail.com address (off-list) so you can
send a few testmails to me. I have 0 mail rules set up and know how to
check a junkmail folder, so if that can help you solve the issue, I'd be
more than happy to report to you what I did and did not receive.

Kr,
Vincent

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server +
RCM + QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet
I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web
sites and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from
phr AT philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was
not delivered. I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient
- If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though
the QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.
- If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr
address to the same person, it is delivered OK.
- If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered OK.
So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
nothing is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the
header lines of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't
make any more progress trying to work out what the problem is.
I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to
fit that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas? Is it possible
that GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently
fail to deliver them to recipients?
Thanks,
Phil.

Vincent Van Houtte

[Philip Rhoades]

Vincent,

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
Hi,

It was only a guess really - I have since posted a note on the GMail
forum to see if anyone there has any ideas too.

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
* PEBKAC: if the receiver has set up rules to move certain emails to a
folder that (s)he didn't check
* PEBKAC: if the email is in a junkmail folder that wasn't checked

The recipient insists those are not possibilities - and I have confirmed
that by sending to my own GMail account.

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
* Qmail bug? Maybe increase log level?

Possible but unlikely - I will check the verboseness options though . .

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
* Other bug? At my wife's office, we hit an Evolution bug last year
that was known for many years, but apparently nobody cared enough to
fix it until we were hit - the client reported that sending had
succeeded, but exim never actually sent the email...

Hmm . . sounds like it . . except I am looking at the qmail server logs
which say the mail was delivered - not just the client info.

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
In general, I don't believe Gmail would reject email and not warn
either the sender or the recipient. Did you try the Gmail support
form? https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2920052?hl=en

See above.

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
If you want, I can give you my gmail.com address (off-list) so you can
send a few testmails to me. I have 0 mail rules set up and know how to
check a junkmail folder, so if that can help you solve the issue, I'd
be more than happy to report to you what I did and did not receive.

Sure - I have checked it with my own GMail account since and the problem
is consistent but I am happy to triple check if you don't mind . .

Thanks!

Phil.

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
Kr,
Vincent

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server +
RCM + QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet
I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web
sites and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from
phr AT philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was
not delivered. I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient
- If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though
the QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.
- If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr
address to the same person, it is delivered OK.
- If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered OK.
So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
nothing is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the
header lines of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't
make any more progress trying to work out what the problem is.
I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to
fit that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas? Is it possible
that GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently
fail to deliver them to recipients?
Thanks,
Phil.

Vincent Van Houtte

[Jeff Ross]

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
Hi,
* PEBKAC: if the receiver has set up rules to move certain emails to a
folder that (s)he didn't check
* PEBKAC: if the email is in a junkmail folder that wasn't checked
* Qmail bug? Maybe increase log level?
* Other bug? At my wife's office, we hit an Evolution bug last year
that was known for many years, but apparently nobody cared enough to
fix it until we were hit - the client reported that sending had
succeeded, but exim never actually sent the email...
In general, I don't believe Gmail would reject email and not warn
either the sender or the recipient. Did you try the Gmail support
form? https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2920052?hl=en

This is simply not true.  Gmail absolutely drops mail after accepting it
from my server.  Worse, it appears to be completely random so most of
the time e-mail that Gmail accepts is delivered. My hunch is that
different servers in their mail pool are configured slightly differently
or their internal routing after delivery is wonky.  I have RC installed
but only one client of mine actually uses it, so I don't think this is a
RC problem either.

Good luck with getting any support from Gmail.  You get what you pay for
with a gmail account.

Jeff

Post by Vincent Van Houtte
If you want, I can give you my gmail.com address (off-list) so you can
send a few testmails to me. I have 0 mail rules set up and know how to
check a junkmail folder, so if that can help you solve the issue, I'd
be more than happy to report to you what I did and did not receive.
Kr,
Vincent

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
Fedora 28 x86_64 workstation + Firefox <=> Fedora 26 x86_64 Server +
RCM + QMail + multiple domains <=> Internet
I have multiple email addresses for the multiple domains I run web
sites and mailing lists for - last night when I mailed to someone from
phr AT philiprhoades DOT org to a their GMail address - the mail was
not delivered.  I went through a bit of debugging with the recipient
- If I use RCM and the phr email address to send mail - even though
the QMail logs say that the mail was successfully delivered - it never
actually arrives - BUT no bounce message is ever received either.
- If I use swaks on the server to send a test email from the phr
address to the same person, it is delivered OK.
- If I use qmail-inject on the server to send the original email that
failed from its Maildir Sent dir to the same person, it is delivered OK.
So it looks like something that RCM is adding to the headers is being
objected to by the GMail servers or something - of course since
nothing is ever actually delivered or bounced, I can't compare the
header lines of the failed emails to the successful emails so I can't
make any more progress trying to work out what the problem is.
I have occasionally had rDNS issues but my diagnostics don't seem to
fit that non-delivery issue . . anyone got any ideas?  Is it possible
that GMail servers can successfully accept emails but then silently
fail to deliver them to recipients?
Thanks,
Phil.

Vincent Van Houtte
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